Monday, February 19, 2007

Lastly...

...another follow-up to my post, since the Iraq War came up. I was against the war when it started. I remember the "countdown" that Bush had for Saddam Hussein. I remember that night watching TV at work when the "countdown" ran out, and I remember watching when the bombs started dropping. At the time, I lived in a rural area, and most people were very much behind this war. I remember being home from work and watching, live on TV, the tanks riding into Baghdad. I was against it, and I remember hearing Howard Dean at the time speaking out against it, and saying what he thought would happen; and it happened just as he said. I remember before the war started, seeing how many Democrats voted for it. I remember some of the rationalizing about it: that in the moment, in the political climate that existed, and with the BS intelligence that Bush and Co. were pushing (and remember, Congress doesn't have access to their own intelligence like the White House does, of course), it, in hindsight, does make a slight bit of sense that many Dems might vote for the war. But even then, I didn't understand it. Now, personally, I am not a big follower of foreign policy; I try to stay up on Iraq and the Middle East, but mostly, I'm more interested in domestic policy. But, Iraq is the biggest policy fuckup, both foreign or domestic, that has happened surely in my lifetime, if not in competition for all-time fuckup. Not only has is completely screwed up the US with regards to other countries and our standing on the world stage, it's screwed up our domestic policy, both by massive and unnecessary spending and by directing our attention away from things that need to be addressed here at home. So I do think that the war is a strike against our Dem candidates, those that voted for it. But I do think that Edwards is on the right track: he's denounced the war, he's said it was a mistake and he was wrong to vote for it. I'm loathe to "promote" someone who made such a massive mistake, but one does have to somewhat take the politics of the time into account. Obama, of course, was not in the Senate, but did come out strong against the war at the time. Clinton voted for it and won't even talk about her vote; she also furthers the Right Wing rhetoric that the Republic Party pushes, likely in an attempt to triangulate her position with more conservative folks (it won't work).

Here is a good blog post that speaks to exactly how I feel about the war. I think that we need to get out of there. Yes, we should take some "responsibility" for what we've done. But we've lost more Americans to the Iraq War fuckup than we did in 9/11, which was and still is used as justification for being there. There are PLENTY of plans out there that Dems have put forth to get us out of Iraq. It's already a civil war, and it's going to get worse with or without us standing in the way and getting killed. I know people over there. I'm tired of seeing people come home in caskets, or come home wounded or mentally fucked-up and not getting the help they deserve. To hear the GOP talk about supporting the troops, and talking about how even debating an exit from Iraq is damaging to the troops, and then not trying to raise taxes even a cent, or even repealing some of Bush's fat tax cuts for the richest among us, to help pay for the war, and get life-saving armor over there to the troops- it's disgusting, and it makes me, honestly, wish I could get locked into a room with some of these fucking assholes. The new Bush budget cuts more veterans benefits, and cuts completely any new research and development into traumatic brain injuries, which is something that is common among Iraq War casualties. The troops don't have the armor and protection they need- the army couldn't even get helmet liners to the troops that could save lives and the troops brains; a private citizen started a campaign to get these to the troops, and ended up finally shaming the army into providing them after regular people sent large sums of their own personal money to get these liners over to the troops. How dare these yellow, scum-sucking, posturing two-faced bottom feeing fuckers even BEGIN to talk about supporting the troops? This war needs to end. There are plans to remove us from Iraq; re-deployment to other areas to continue to help train and protect the borders. A "soft-partition" of Iraq into three different areas (which is, de facto, what is already happening anyway- remember, Iraq was never actually a country, it was cobbled together from different more tribal areas and held together by a dictator). Biden has one of the best plans; unfortunately, he's not the best talker, and our high and mighty news media thinks that someone misspeaking is more fucking important than actually having a good plan and getting something done. This whole situation is fucked, and continuing down the same path, because "we must take responsibility," or because we are too proud to "lose," or whatever; it's morally repugnant and wrong. These soldiers deserve better, and so do the future generations which are undoubtedly going to live in the aftermath of these blunders.

9 comments:

laurie said...

I couldn't have said it better myself.

annie said...

I too have been against the war from the beginning. The war started while I was (of all places) at Special Agent Academy for th Department of Defense. While my class was surprisingly liberal, there were a lot of conservatives and pro-war liberals - We had a lot of debates over whether or not Saddam had ties to 9/11, whether or not those WMDs really existed, and whether or not this war would be a walk in the park.

If lil ol Jane from Lake City could predict that A: Saddam had no ties to 9/11, B: there were no WMDs, and C: this war would degenerate into a quagmire... one wonders how so many people, politicians and the Average Joe alike, could fall for this nonsense.

In the comments section of this post, Melissa wrote that we have to take responsibility for what we've done to Iraq. In other words, we need to stay and fix it. I believed this for a long time. In fact, I still wish that we *could* stay and fix it, but I don't really think that's feasible.

We've gone in and fucked up Iraq's infrastructure, caused political instability and created a civil war. I think that is terrible, and I wish we could make Iraq a stable, happy democracy like Bush promised that we would. However, at this point it is obvious that we would have to spend years in Iraq - not to mention billions of dollars - in order to have a slight chance of being successful. Meanwhile, our troops will still be dying, Iraq will still have fucked up infrastructure and will still be wracked by civil war, and the Islamic fundies will still hate us.

I say we pull out and at the very least spare our troops' lives.

annie said...

Also -

When my ex-boyfriend's younger brother was deployed to Iraq, his family chipped in to buy him the necessary armor that was not provided by the Army.

At the very least, if we're going to keep our troops there, they MUST have the best protection available.

Anonymous said...

Nick said:
"This whole situation is fucked, and continuing down the same path, because "we must take responsibility," or because we are too proud to "lose," or whatever; it's morally repugnant and wrong."

Nick, I'm not sure if this was directed towards me or not. Since I don't really know you, I will assume that you are not calling me "morally repugnant."

Jane said:
"Melissa wrote that we have to take responsibility for what we've done to Iraq. In other words, we need to stay and fix it."

Jane, I did not mean that we need to stay and fix it. I have pretty conflicted feelings about the topic. I'll avoid going in to details here, because I'm feeling a bit attacked.

Happy blogging.

Melissa

Stephanie said...

Did any one see the article in the NYTimes today about Bush comparing the war on terror to the Revolutionary war?

Um, only if he was thinking we were like the British, and even then we can't claim that - it's not like we have colonized Iraq.

He was saying that George Washington wanted freedom everywhere, not just in the United States (and that he would probably support this war, or at least that was implied). I hope George Washington comes back as a zombie and eats his brains for that comment.

Sean said...

Dear America,

You went in and fucked up a fucked up country even more. While it must be tempting to just call the whole thing off and walk away, that's bullshit.

You have no problem reminding everyone that you have more wealth than any other country in history. You're supposedly the most free country in the world; in fact, the phrase "leader of the free world" rolls off your tongue without a second thought. Everyone on the planet should follow your lead, right? Ideals and god are on your side. You've perfected this civilation thing. That's what been you've advertising to anyone who will listen (and what you've forced upon those who didn't).

So now's the time. Step up and prove that you can un-fuck a country less than 10% your size. Your will and ideals are superior? Put that Protestant Work Ethic into practice and show us.

You have an embarrassment of riches in terms of military equipment, willing soldiers and, through home-growing and importing, a disproportionate number of the world's greatest minds.

Act like a grown-up. Take full responsibility for your mistake. Make it work.

Signed,
The rest of the goddamn world, who hears a lot from you, but hasn't seen much lately

annie said...

Sean and the rest of the goddamn world -

I think we should withdraw our troops; however, I think we should continue to provide funding for aid, democratic organizations/parties, NGOs, etc. I think there is a better way to solve this problem than by continuing to maintain a military presence.

Melissa - I wasn't attacking you, I promise! Although I did think from your comment that you meant that we should stay and fix things. PLEASE share your details :-)

Nick said...

Meliss: No, I would never call you "morally repugnant." Never. That's not what I was saying. And for Sean and "the rest of the goddamn world," yes, I agree, we SHOULD have fixed this. And the sad part is, it was likely possible to have done this somewhat successfully. We didn't go in with enough troops. We didn't provide the troops with what they needed. We didn't rally America around this war and instill a sense of having some "skin in the game" and sacrifice (Bush just said "go shopping, stay at a hotel, and buy duct tape"- not exactly FDR). And Bush is still not committed to really fighting this war the way it should have. And anyways, at this point, can anyone honestly say that this will get any better? What can we do now but get out of the way, unfortunately let this thing play out, and try to make it better by getting our presense and the anger and hatred that our being there causes- there is reason to believe that us pulling out might actually decrease some of the violence, as it's so painfully obvious that we are making things worse.

The "rest of the world" shouldn't equate America and Bush, or America and Bush's policies and priorities. Yes, we somehow elected him (at least once, since 2000 doesn't seem to count). But a vast majority are against him now, and a majority, as revealed in a new poll, wishes his presidency was just simply over. Since there is no feasible method our constitution gives us to get him out of office, except impeachment which isn't going to happen, we have to wait him out. But I think that the best thing we can do it withdraw from the middle of Iraq. Not just turn our backs and run away, but some sort of strategic redeployment of some sort. Staying in the middle of the fighting and stirring the pot more and more isn't making things better, and in the meantime our brave soldiers are just there for target practice. In a just world, we would never have gone in in the first place; but we did, and it's been a blunder all the way. Taking responsibility is not just sitting there, refusing to leave or change our course. There are other things we can try to do to help without staying right smack in the middle and egging things on. That's all I'm sayin'.

And what I meant by morally repugnant was people who use this "we support the troops" BS to stifle dissent and debate, while not actually taking care of our troops- cutting taxes in a time of war, not ensuring the troops have the life-saving armor and equipment they need, not making sure they have benefits that they deserve after serving, stretching them too thin, pushing failed policies, making troops stay in demoralizing and decrepid facilities upon injury and return, etc. I've been tired for 4 years of being called by many of our own leaders in Congress a "terrorist sympathizer" basically just because I would dare to say something is terribly wrong. That's morally repugnant.

Wishing to stay and try to honestly make things better is totally morally sound and I can only wish that that was the attitude that our leaders had taken from the beginning.

Sean said...

The air's gone out of this topic, but:

Jane- There is a de facto civil war in Iraq. People in NGOs or charities or whatever won't be safe. A benevolent unarmed presence didn't help Rwanda. It's unfortunate, but it's the case.

Nick- The Iraq situation is not the result of a one man blunder. I'm not advocating having more troops sent solely to be fodder for IEDs, but it's morally reprehensible to try and remove oneself from this situation at this point. Administratively, diplomatically, logistically and, yes, militarily this is the US's show. How to fix it isn't obvious, and it won't be easy, but leaders lead.